Podcast Builder Club
Podcast Builder Club

Episode 21 · 1 year ago

How to Overcome the Fear of Failure

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you’ve ever heard the saying “without darkness there is no light”, the same is true for success and failure—you have to experience both to know if you’re growing and heading in the right direction. Learn how to take the highs and the lows of podcasting in stride and create the community you want by doing what you love most!

In this episode, Travis shares…

  • Common pitfalls of having self-doubt
  • Reframing your experiences to find success
  • Defining what success and failure look like for you
  • Advice to mimic what works for others to find what works for you
  • 3 Ways to grow your community: Name it, Social Media, Mini Content
  • Why failure is necessary to have success
  • Why you should always start by asking for money

Memorable Quotes:

  • “You should make the thing you want to listen to.”
  • “How would you ever learn anything without ever messing it up?”

Links to resources:

Perfect Package Podcast

Perfect Package Patreon

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Go to https://www.poddecks.com/ to give your interviews a unique twist!

If you w're going to label your podcastas a success, what does that look like? Is it you're making money? Is it aspecific amount of people that are listening, not necessarily high numbers, and not even sponsors or making moneyoff of it, but to have a like crazy fan base, so communitystarting a podcast is easy. Ut growing an audience can be hard podcasters face, so many challengesthat can make them want to quit. So I'm here to help them stay in the game. This is podcast therapy. I got to hang out with Chad from theperfect package podcast. It's a comedy show and Chad is looking to overcome afew obstacles. You're going to learn in this episode, how to deal with impostorsyndrome how to overcome and use fear to your advantage and how to navigatesocial media. If you don't have a Nich, if you don't have a very specificaudience and of course, if you're running a comedy podcast how you canopen the door to get more exposure without releasing a podcast episode,but before we get started, I just wanted to remind you. I also have ayoutube channel where I drop all kinds of valuable little videos on how youcan grow your podcast, so make sure you head over to Youtube and subscribe. Idon't know if it's a perfectionist in me, but it's just. I don't think it'sgood enough I'll. Never think it's good enough. Idon't think from what aspect the content, the editing the now I think the editing is good ish, which is something that is new to me. I've been doing podcast off and on forprobably...

...seven or eight years now, and until the last I'd say ten months, Ihave never edited okay, that', there's nothing wrong withjust the raw here it is. You know if we got a three hour conversation you'regoing to hear your every damn word of it all of the dead space and everything.Now I'm at that point where it's like you know, I'm shooting for an hour perepisode. We get two hours two and a half well cut it down to an hour, so I'm getting remeticulous with thatstuff. So I'm happy with the editing I just I don't know. I can't put myfinger on what I don't think is good enough. Okay, do you listen to yourepisode when you're done with it yeah? Do you enjoy it? I do do you laugh, doyou okay, then I would say that that meansthat you're that it's probably perfect, because you should make the thing thatyou want to listen to right. So if you and I know it's sort of narcissistic tolisten to your own podcast, but truly like if it entertains you, then youknow it's got to be entertaining because there's other people out therethat have the same sense of humor as you or I or thought processes, your Iso as far as imposter syndrome like likewhat do you you feel like an impostor or in what realm like? I don't know, ifthat's the that's the term, the correct term for it, but just that wholegetting out of your head of you know it's garbage. You know that selfdepregating kind of thing and- and I kind of lean into that to withthe show too it's you know, but you know I talk about our dozens offans that we have all around the world and it's awesome. That's awesome whichawesome so like get give me an idea like whatkind of download do you pull?...

We never go below sixty and that in a week we'll get sixtydownloads a week minimum. Sometimes it's a hundred and twenty.Sometimes it's two hundred. Sometimes it's three hundred. Have you figuredout what makes a three hundred download episode as opposed to? I? Is there anytrends? Okay, I haven't. That would be something I might look into figure out,which ones are the. I would e it the biggest our biggest episode we ever hadwas we had big pole guest on it, so we figured that one''s going to bebad and then obviously, if you lookconstorically, it's like the early episodes are big and I think it's just historically andit's if you look at what's been downloadedin the last, you know even days. It's not always the most recent. Itgoes back. Even peopl go back yeah, for you know, we've been doing it a year.Now. We've got episode. Fifty five coming out next week andit's very much a you know: Episode Ten got fifteen downloads todayand interestow, and it's just it's all over the place, which makes me feelgood that people are going back to the well so to speak in listening to theearlier episodes. That's huge yeah, it is it. Is You get done with an episode and you'relike? Is this good enough? Should I do this yeah? I think I a. We only have oneepisode right now that is still sitting in a folder on my desktop where it'slike. This is never sining the light of day we had another episode like that. I putit out and it was one of our most raved about onesas far as the inner circle, you know...

...the people that I do interact with on areregular basis, they're like Oh, my God that was perfect. Okay. So why not put that one on the folder outthen yeah? It was bad guest. Okay, Lat's F, that's that's understandable and that'snormal yeah get those okay. Well, I'm trying to figure out like where thelike, where usually with the selfdoubt thing, there's there's a couple ways atgoes: it's like you're, either comparing yourself or you're prejecting. Something on toyourself. Do you think either of those like do you feel like you're comparedlike when you feel theself doubt it's because you're seeing somebody else dosomething it could be, it could be Beyou know you run in circles withpodcasters and theyre. You know doing spectacular and you're scraping by, butwhat is spectacular to you? Well, I don't know because some people thinkthat we're spectacular we we do live shows even through the pandemic. We have alocal brewery that will let us set up shop there and live stream it and do it in front of anaudience as big as you can get. You know during sixty percent t capacitig yeah capacities, but some people are like. Oh Man, you could never do my podcast live andI'm like. No, nobody should be able to do a podcast life. I Wante a go and sitin ha bar and listen to people talk yeah, but if it's funny people dopeople keep coming back and- and I don't- I don't know- I think it'sthat...

...maybe I'll answer my own question here-it's the feaure of failure, and so it's kind of selfsabotaging is. I don't want to succeed, because if Isucceed then it's possible to fail right. So if I go from the bottom tothe middle, then I don't have to worry aboutsucceeding and I and thus not failing okay does this. Does this theme appearanywhere else in your life like everywhere, so we're on o something here yeah? Soif you don't succeed, you can't fail that's sort of the thought processpretty much, but if you succeed, you've already succeeded, you'reworried about succeeding and Bomin it yeah. I think, okay, maintaining that'ssort of every. So if you for some reason, built up your podcast af fivethousand downloads every week and then for some reason it went down back tolike a hundred. You would consider that a failure. I think that I think theinteraction in the feedback is what I consider success and I know you set iton one of on one of the therapy. Episodes was where maybe it was one of the littleanalyst things you did with somebody where it's they you know, instead ofthinking of it and download numbers. Think of these are people coming tolisten to you talk every Friday, yeah, that's how I view it. So if it's tenpeople or ten thozand people, it's, I know that our show doesn't have a niche.So to speak, that's okay! And it's so it's so clicheto say, but it's so true, it's it's the it's the podcast that I wanted to.Listen to that TAT, Clichet! That's so! For somebody who doesn't have the theknee Shure, the Nich right so like it's...

...very easy for somebody, who's like I'm,a health coach yeah to pinpoint people and then provide them with answers totheir questions and grow the podcast. But there's this whole other side,which is the Non Niche podcaster. But the good news is: Is the number onepodcast in the world is a non niche podcast? That is exactly what you're doing right. So we know apeople like it, be that there's people that listen to it and see that it'spossible to to grow something. So if you're going to label your podcast as asuccess, what does that look like? Is it you're making money? Is it aspecific amount of people that are listening? Is it the freedom to quit your job and dothat? What is that? What does that look like, I think for me it would be not necessarily high numbers and not even sponsors or making moneyoff of it, but it would go hand in hand but to have a like crazy fan base. Okay, so communityyeah a super engaged community that, because we love doing the live, showsyou know you're out of your mind, if you thinkI'm going to do stand up, but which is the same thing you justrecording. I you put me on a stage with my friend and we put microphones infront of US yeah, I'm all in on that I would love to do you know, take it onthe road we made a, and that was one of the the patreongoals that I put on there was. I said, I'm going to give this insane number,which is not that insane thousand dollars. If we make a thousand dollarsa month, we will go to every patreon's hometownand do a live show, even if we have to...

...do in their living room. Yeah K, that's cool because you figure athousand dollars. That's enough to get you to point it from Point A to point B,get you a hotel for the night and then come home. You know so, okay, so we'reon to something here, we've established that the fear of succeeding and failingis the fear. That's the that's. The the ugly thing Yeph success is having a fanbase. Yes, okay! So how? What does failure look like now? So if you'vedone it, let's say you've grown the fan base. How do you fail from there? The People Go away that there's no morefan base yeah. I think that would be we're just doing dos down to nothing and then you're, just picking up scrapsand so for you. I would look at and I know we talkedabout Kevin Smith earlier. I think he's a really good like person to model likeI know everyone says like Joe Rogan, but I think that's unanunattainablething, but I think what Kevin Smith has is pretty much exactly what I in some capacity what you'redescribing is success. Right he's got a podcast, he does live events and he hasa raving family. So, yes, what about Kevin Smiths community, like? Are you apart of any of his communities? Are you like a subscriber of his or because Idon't know what he's offering right now? I know he had some yeah. I don't subscribe to anything that hehas. I've gone to see his live, shows I've done my pilgrimage to New Jersey.To you know, I got to go to quick, quit everybody's got to go to quick, stopand buy cigarettes, Hahaawhat's that cat's name, annoying customer yeah, okay, so yeah, okay, but whatabout like so so you're, not an active participant in his community? Are youan active participant in any community like that? Like are you so when I'mlooking at this is like you want to...

...build a fan base? What Fan Base? Areyou a part of none right now I mean an active memberof a so what I guess I'm trying to get atwith this is I want to figure out what you like about someone's yeah, so we can playoff that,for you I mean it's. You know like Kevin Smith is probably the bestparallel you can do because of the live shows and things like that and yeah. Okay. So all right, so we want togrow. We want to grow you a fan base, so the three ways to do that, as as a Iguess should we say: Comedy: Podcast, Yeah. Okay, that's safe all right, so so the first way is typically, you sort of give you have to like make a community. Youhave to make like a group, you have to make your little secret society. Youhave to name them like the. What I don't know does Kevin Smith call hispeople, something like I don't think so or you know a lot of groups. It's likeyou'Ra, something I M, I'm you know amaze yeahright or likeright, so I would start with like. Can you create something for your audience to be a part of right?That's the first thing of like well what doe you like! Well, I'Ma, I'm aSan, Diego Vampire right like for lack of better words, yeah, so andand there's probably something that you already kind of call yourself. I knowit's. He perfect pack package podcast but like so you give this thing a name. What'sThe patreon called? What tell me more about the Patrio? The patreon is theperfect patreon group, righ so branded, and how many subscribers are patrons.Do you have we have five okay,...

...we'll have six after this call? Oh so,but so you've got five six people in the in your group, so I think by likesort of like naming them, making making up a thing that someone can be a partof because everybody likes to be a part of things like whether it be a facebookgroup or it's the you know my wife's on a text group with all the moms fromschool from a human human standpoint. We lookto be like I want to be the band I want to be in a gang. I want to be in adance troop right or whatever it is. So if you make it, you have a place to like silo peopleand keep them and funnel people through yeah correct right, so they canactually be a part of it because, right now it's sort of like it's cast out andpeople don't even know unless they're like listening to the podcast thatthey're a part of this thing. So I would start, I think, the road o yoursuccess is like name it, and I know that may feel likesort of lame. But no, I think that's like labeling. It can really helpdefine it for people so start there and and then I think the other thing thatyou could be doing is now. How active are you on socialmedia? I know I've follow you, but I've got all these people and sometimes Idon't see all the posts yeah. It's hitter Miss Okay with it, and that's that's where I've that wasgoing to be another question for you. When at one point I was gonna, get onyour. What is it the speak, pipe yeah life yeah, social media? How often, how much is too much not really what do you post and whatwhat the post is easy? It's the frequency and that depends onthe platform. So what's your favorite social media outlet to use...

I get more. Interaction through twitter prefer facebook, because I'm eighty, because I'm an old lady, but no I do instagram is you know it'sInstagram, Yep, okay, so here's what you do twitter is like and all you caneat buffet right post there. All you want. I there's no, like I don't think,there's a frequency maishue there. Like I mean you don't want to. Like Iwouldn't do every single thing I do all day but like I think you probably gotthat unlockdown with facebook. Facebook is something that I think that you knowyou can set a goal for, and it's got to be the goal that can like be actuallycompleted by you because, like I post something every day, ppost like that'smy thing, I'm like okay, there has to be a post today it could be. You know I try to plan it, but it couldbe anything, but there has to be something because the way that thatfeed works is is like you're, always at the bottom you're always at the bottom.You got to put something on the top yeah, so for you I would figure out like and let's just say it's an everydaything for you. That means you need seven kinds of posts right. I don'tlike to try. I try not to reuse stuff or do back to backstuff, but I'll saylike this postis going to be a product. This post is going to be a clup of mypodcast. This one's going to be this. This was you know, so I've got seventhings I rotate through yeah. I would try to develop what your rotation lookslike Okay d. Then I would try to figure out what the piece of content lookslike and just make that your goal like and start small three times a week, andyou can even do this as far as and I could see, I could see some really funstuff with you is like. Have you ever seen the reaction videos where peoplelike react to stuff? Yes, okay, I think that would be like a nobrainer amazingthing. For you to do is simply do a screen capture. Are You Macor, PC,...

PC, okay, there's some, probably somebuilt in screen capture thing. You know record you reacting to trending things,trending videos, turning topics, ijust Si, that's just a piece of content. Youget a minute out of that and you post that on facebook. What that does is itshows that your current that you're fun funny and you don't even really have topromote the podcast it just it gets people to sort of like like you and getto know you more. Obviously, you want to promote the podcast or the live o.You can do these same thing with ha live clip three things out of it thatwere awesome that are like a minute and post those. But as far as frequency I mean, I wouldsay, like in my personal opinion, unlike instagram or facebook like morethan like, two is too much yeah in a day in a day: Yes, just because it'slike you'r sort of inundating people and then like, if they have too manythings to see a day from you, sometimes they get overwhelmed and they don'twant to see it. And it's really difficult right now, because there's somuch to see y right, there's too many platforms too many channels too manystreaming survace services. It's like there's no way to keep up witheverything you want to keep up with, but I think, if you create this group,you create this like gang. You know the package gang, the Amazon driverpackage game. You give people a chance to be a part of it, so you can start tobuild that. I would get your social media frequency up, because I thinkthat you can do some like killer stuff. That is relevant current and funny. Are you familiar with get vocal? No, I am now you are now it's it's a liveplatform for podcast, okay and they have themed content, nights cool they reached out to us about doingtuesdays great...

...and it's a live scheduled lives. Peoplealways know that they can go and see you Tuesday, nights. Eight o'clock boomhere, you are to says, is the comedy night. It'stickle me Tuesdays, which sounds filthy, but anyway that's nother topic, but my co host can't do Tuesdays so because he's innerd he has to playdnd. But Anyway, okay, there's a priority. There's apriority issue: There can dandd be moved to Thursdays, Nope, flidays andWednesdays. That's his thing that he's done forever whic. Can you do tetrickle me Tuesday without him boom there? It is that's what I'm thinking of doing ismaking it a live with me same format, but the cool thing about this is: Itgives you a forscreen room, Kinn. Anybody that's on there can join, takea seat and be part of it. So it could be. The perfect package live emesdayswith Chad and you and anybody else yeah, one hundred percent. Do it and thendrag other podcasters in there, because then you get the network ging and Yepyea perfect, it's a I mean as long as your cohost isn't going to like get.You know bent about it right. I don't think he'sgoing to get band about it. I couldn't ask for a better co post. Asfar as content goes. He is so witty and so fast and smart. So I 're the leader of the PODCAST,though right he shows he just shows up. Okay, then I do the editing I do thePublishe, then then, that he's going to have to be cool with that yeah and thata d. This is the kind of thing that, like, depending on your friendship andyour agreement like this, is the kind of thing where people like yeah goahead and do it and then they're like what d you do that thing without me, soI would just make it clear: Like Hey, listen, I want you to do this with me.Your priority is dungeons and dragons,...

...which is fine with me, but my priority is to do this thing,and so I want you to give me you don't want to sit in the classetstudio forever, we're Goinno Rin on the road correct. So that would be amazing and you shoulddefinitely do it, but I do want to warn you that you could become successful inyou might fail. That's all right, I'll dhere with it. Okay, because that's wh,that's how this conversation started. Yeah I'LL! Do it because Travis saidit's okay to fail, yeah it okay. So how would you ever learn anythingwithout messing it up exactly. I think, if you look at the failure part as likelet in work, let's try this and you know an anless you try like if you don'twant to fail, you'll, never try. I know where you're coming from, because Ifeel the same things I put out podcast about podcasting and I'm like what am I doing. Am I actually helpingsomeone, so it makes me feel good with it. You actually said you listen to it,because I'm thinking most of the time, I think I'm recording I'm recording and putting something outinto the the universe. That's just black space right, because unlesssomeone tells you or gives you feedback, but I just keep doing it because Idon't care ecause, I'm like if somebody listens good and then maybe I help themin that moment good and I enjoy doing it yeah. How can I fail? I guess Icould give someone bad advice and ruin their life by telling them to podcast.I don't know but same thing for you. I just I want you to know that, like thefailure is going to Worr, where you really going to like ramp, it upComedians, go, have a bad set and then they're like. Oh, this joke isn'tworking because of this, and then they fix the joke and then and it's theirkiller right yeah. I just want you to think like that,like I want you to think, like somebody who's like sharpening a knife. Alright,you GONTA cut yourself a few times every time. The deck thought comes intoyour mind. You just got to just remember that the failure parts goingto like leap frog, you forward...

...it's very true, but what you're doing?I think that I think that what will expedit yourgrowth- and this is something I really like tosee. Y focus on is the mini content, like the reaction, video, the quick quip, thebecause an hour long podcast is awesome, but, and it gives somebody a chance toget to know you, but like sometimes you need that little, like Hook in thewater, with the warm on it to catch the fish, and if people can't get to youlike that's the fastest way to open that little door to get people into. SoI would just develop A. I would get somebody on fiver to make me a littleStinger. That's perfect, perfect package podcast like something like youknow, Rop Yeah, you get anybody to do it and I would start doing these likesixty second pieces of content and that- and that could literally be you justsitting around for a night doing stuff reacting to stuff looking about stuff otalking stuff, but then turn it into those many pieces and then, of course, keep promotingyour tribe. Your group, the basketeers, the package of tears, whatever you're,calling it and start to call start to callyour listeners that all the time,even if they're, not they don't quote, call themselve that you know and that'sgoing to be the way you're going to build the audience, and then that comesinto the once the world ever comes back to where it is, then you're going, liveand you're doing these other things and these ane and you already have a loteof event that people are showing up to. I don't ave beer there, but like yeah,they haven't asked you to not come back, that's true! It illuminates you. Obviously you havethe history of the Trivia. You know how to do this makes you happy right? Yes, do you getpaid? No Okay and you can you get paid for doing the live, shows yeah or are they going like it's exposurefor you? No they've, never done that! It'sexposure for them and us...

...the owner is always our guest when wedo it, okay, but we're E. I am looking at other venues now because things arestarting to open up a little bit. So looking at new venues, it's a toughcell until somebody sees it Yeah Tani right now it shouldn't be atough cell, because everybody's hurting yeah, so any you know your pitch is simply this. Listen I'vebeen building my audience online while you've been going out of business yeah.I want to bring these people in real life to your venue. I'm going to comehere and put on a live. Show you're going to give me fifty bucks or you'regoing to give me free beer or you're going to give me something and I'mgoing to bring these people into your spot, we're going to do it safely atcapacity and if you're not going to do it Jimmy down the street's going to do it.So I mean you can literally get that aggressive right now, becausebusinesses bodegas restaurants, everybody's going out of business yeah.So you are actually in a really good position of being able to leverage that,and I always start, I would always start out asking for money. It cost us.You know it's a hundred dollar guarantee. We come do this, we bringour people, we get a hundred dollars and the only thing that they can say tothat is. I were not giving you a hundreddollar and you go okay, we'll do it once for free and show youand then, after that, it's a hundred bucks right like in the worst theycould say is no and then you know, then you decide you know, but but I would start to just put that outthere because there's I don't want to get to woo on you, butonce you start to put that out like it's known and you can even use peopleagainst each other, will the brewery we do. They give us a hundred and fiftydollars and free drinks or three tickets or whatever to do this at theirevent, Oh okaywill give you a hundred...

...okay like and now we're talking. Nowit's something that's like, and I know you don't do it for money, or else youwouldn't go to it, but you deserve to make money, that's true and that those funds could be used todo to babe hire someone to clip your your audio things or higher an editoror buy some ads to promote your little quick quips or to promote like buy anad to promote your tickle me, Tuesday, so Gros, it's pretty bad, even when Isaid it, I'm like God, it just feels bad in your mouth whenyou eh, that's the grossest thing I've ever had in my mouth yeah now I appreciate this honestly. I knowwe're like overtime, but I just wanted to say thank you for doing this. It'sawesome, you're welcome, keep doing what you're doing, because I do listento it. I got my pod. I got my pod decks. I got my had all right. Well, I want to.I want to follow up with you on this, like I like to, I would like you like, when you figureout a name. Let me know what it is, so I can call myself when you, when you start to tickle me Tuesdaything. I want to check it, okay, in a safe way in a safe environment. I promise you won't need to talk to aparent teacher Somewhene, you trust after tickome Tuesday, and then. Thirdly, like I would like to see you open small doors to give people to youyeah, because that's really how things are working right now and all thosealgorithms and all the social media people's attention. SPANDS are not anhour long until they're ready to be an hour long right. So you've really justlike. Have you heard of the stiff socks? PODCAST? Okay, look them up! It's liketwo guys, one guy's, like super famous, it's two guys they do this podcast!It's comedy a lot of clips to get you to the podcast, and I think that wouldbe a good thing for you. Tost look at...

...vigually and be like okay, like it'snot as complicated as it seems it. Just now must be done thanks for listening. If you enjoyedthis episode, the number one thing you could do to help is to subscribe rateand review this podcast or, if you know another podcast who may be strugglingand needs a little bit of podcast therapy, just click that share buttonand share it with the podcaster. You love the most I'll, see you in the nextepisode.

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