Podcast Builder Club
Podcast Builder Club

Episode 12 · 1 year ago

The Future of Podcast Discovery with Kal Amin and Dan Daugherty

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

SEO (search engine optimization) and discovery might sound like something you have to pay big bucks for in order to grow your podcast and audience—but what if it wasn’t? Kal Amin and Dan Daugherty, creators of Sounder.fm, join Travis to share why they’re on a mission to usher in a new way for podcasters to connect with creators, designers, and their ideal audience without the high cost or limited reach of other platforms!

In this episode, Travis, Kal, and Dan discuss…

  • How the growth of the podcasting industry in 2020 is just like the growth of the web in the late 90’s—early 2000’s
  • Sounder’s mission to make podcasting more accessible
  • Sounder’s innovative approach to search optimization and audio SEO
  • Kal and Dan’s motivation for their user experience design
  • How to rank your podcast in Google
  • Why Kal and Dan’s decided to launch their own podcast
  • Sounder’s goals to make monetization easier for podcasters—with or without advertising
  • Q & A with Kal and Dan

Memorable Quotes:

  • “Just like everyone had a blog—every business had a blog, every person and every business will also have a podcast.”
  • “...this idea of stream audio search is finding that specific topic, phrase, keyword, whatever it may be, what you're looking for...and retrieving the information and then going back to your doing what you were doing, so we think it's going to be a pretty big shift.”
  • “When people are able to find the topics that they're interested in, and start to consume you quicker, and you're saving people time, they're more likely to discover you and fall in love with you.”

Links to resources:

Sounder.fm

The Big Exit Podcast

Go to Facebook.com/poddecks to join the Podcast Posse!

Go to https://www.poddecks.com/ to give your interviews a unique twist!

In this episode, I interview cal andDan from sound RF m about the future of discovery for podcasters. If you'relooking for a new way to get discovered and grow, your audience you're notgoing to want to miss this episode. Starting a podcast is easy. A growingan audience can be hard podcastres face, so many challengesthat can make them want to quit. So I'm here to help them stay in the game. This is podcast ther. So what if I told you that employesfrom Google, spotify and flipboard started their own podcast hostingcompany and created a platform for creators to get discovered well you'rein luck, because I've got cal and Dan. The CO founders of Sounder F M on theshow today to share with you the future of discovery for podcasters. Iabsolutely love Sonderfm, it's what I host my podcast on and they sharedtheir mission. They shared how to get discovered and they shared a lot ofinformation about the future of pod. Casting, let's check it out. So twent ytwenty was supposed to be the year of the hubber boards. It was supposed tobe hover. Car Self lacing shoes and it's it's not really turned out to bethe year that we thought it would be and Sounder FM is what I think to bethe the leader in the future of podcasting. So I wanted to thank youguys for building a platform like this. What are your thoughts on thepodcasting industry right now, as it stands this moment time you know for usif you look at if you look at podcasting, both cow and I came fromGoogle in the very early days and if you look at potcasting today and then go back inone thousand nine hundred and ninety nine, two thousand there's a lot ofsimilarities: Bac, N, Hoan, nine Hundre, an nintynine. Two thousand, you had a lot more content being added to the web as moreand more content was added to the web.

It became a lot harder to discover newcontent and that's one of the reasons why Google was so successful. is theyhad a be a better algorithm to take all this content and make it really moreeasily discoverable? If you look at Montization even back then Um, it wastoght, one percent of publishers, top one percent of of really advertiserscould communicate. If you also look back, then you had a now get a lot ofusers, a lot more users being added, as as the proliferation of the webdifferent devices, Mobil became better. All of that made made for interesting business models tooccur. We're seeing that within the audio space as well to your point,Travis over five hundred thousand new podcast Ha have been added to theecosystem so far this year and we're not even done yet. You have a lot moreof the creators that are just arting out who are becoming mitted. Maybe they werehobbyoust before but they're, starting to turn into more of a business andstarting to figure out ways to make more money. However, there's somechallenges there with back to that one percent to the one percent: NineteenIgety, nine, two thousand of advertisers and publishers same for thepodcast industry and then a big thing that we've seen wher we see the futureof potcasting is just like. Everyone had a blog, every business had a blogevery person. Ind every business will also have a podtast nd right now ittakes roughly four hours to produce one hour of quality audiocontent. Thatshould be one to one. That will be the future as words talking. They will betechnology and integrations going on in the background that will actually dopre and post production as we're...

...talking. So that's the ultimate goalthat might be five ten years nowt in the road, but pot casting is going tobe massive. Just like the web was Ma massive Ne Hsan, nine Hundrd N ninetnine. Two thousand. I love that cal you wanted to chime inon that yeah. No, I think that can dan Dal t wont say Li. It's what'sinteresting! Is that you know what we talk about internally is the fact thatpodcasting has really been an art for im for the last, let's Ay decade or so,and it's finally becoming a real business and what you've seen over thecourse of the last three years, wis a lot more effort and energy being putinto actually how to create this medium to be much more sustainable, much morestructured and really focusd on helping creators, you know not only Developanaudience but also start to generate an income or revenue, forthe conse thatthey're creating and that's partly what we're, what we're so excited by rightnow. But if you think about the overall opportunity, the podcasting market hasbeen so fragmented for quite some time and for a creator identifying tools andservices to build your content and then to market it to promote it to measne.You know, obviously, all the way down to modesize it. It's it's beenchallenging and I think our job here is to make that a lot easier for everyoneand our starting point is really round discovery. But, based on what theinthast said, you know, our idea here is that we want to make it veryintuitive, make it very, very easy for creators to actually have an ability tonot only manage their content but ultimately get in in front of the rightOudience, so they can grow, Eir, Hir, their listenership and then ultimatelymonitizes that consent as well. That's amazing, so we're going to talk moreabout the features that are involved in sounder I've been in the industry forabout seven years, and my whole goal in life is to help podcasters to findtheir voice grow their audience and start their own movement. But I wantedto talk a little bit about your mission, which is this is something I read online today,which I absolutely love. I rode down. We created Saunder to insure publishers,creators and platforms of all sizes to...

...win audio should be for all, and whenyou know everyone has a shstory to share Um. I've tried almost every single podcasthost and I recently launched this potcast with Sounroughem and I justhave to save it's the best host out there. I love the fact that you guysare starting now because you've improved upon all you make all theother hosts. Almost look archaic like a a ninety. Seven go city's website, it'sI go in, it's futuristic, it's easy to use and then we're going to talk moreabout the tools. But if you want to elaborate more on your mission, I thinkthat's very important because I don't think every podcast host has the sameideals that you two do as start up founders and I'd like people to knowthat there's two people behind this that actually genuinely care aboutpodcasters success, yeah an I this is it's really important to us when Danand I first started talking about building the company, we we built thecompany on a set of core beliefs and one of the beliefs is that we y, as yousee the market grown as a mention. We talk about the fact that it's becomingmore of a business rather than just an art form. What we're seeing is that thesystems and the platforms are becoming more and more closed right, so you're,seeing some bigger companies really take a leed position in terms ofhodcast creation and podcast ownership, and it's becoming more t more of anexclusive group rather than something that's truly open field, and what webelieve in is giving everybody a chance to be successful right again. If youthink about the there's a snow, I guess it's somewhat famous lie now that thetop one percent of creators, an average Te General about thirty thousanddowngoads per episode, but the median is a e hundred and twenty four. Ibelieve and there's this massive disparity between the top one percentand everybody else within the podcasting space and our job reallyhere is to help everyone grow rihow. Do we actually get that audience tnever togo up, and you know helping to connect creators with the people who actuallyhave an interest in what they have to...

...say? So that's a big part of ourmission and yeah. I think you Kno for US keeping keeping the entire ecosystemopen and not closed and actually helping to foster innovation, and thatcomes away working with creators itcomes with working with developers,and it comes with working with existing companies in the space. So we canprovide the best experience wor the most important part of this journey,which is really the creator well said, yeah. So let's talk aboutthe reasons why people should be paying attention to soundorf m. You know,first of all, most podcast hosts immediately out the gate. They want youto pay for service space and a sounder OFM account comes with really nostrings attached, you're able to start creating right away, but Wal peoplemight not know about sandrum. Is that you guys- and you mentioned innovationearlier and as a very key word you, you e, really innovated a lot of things forpodcasters, mainly in the way people can get discovered, and I really likethat because it's easy to start a podcast, but it's difficult to getdiscovered and you guys have set up a platform that allows people to usebuilt in tools Um to start getting discovered everywhere, and a couple ofthose that I'd like to to have you guys elaborate on because you're thegeniuses behind is, is in audiosearch functionality andAudioseo. Let's start, let's part with th thehistory ecause. I think this will put everything in the context you mentioned innovation. We. Westrongly believe that even personal frustration really is acacatalyst innovation. So if we can solve our own personal frustrations withinthe podcasting space, we believe that there's a big mass market opportunitythere to help others do the same and, as a relates, will be call instream,audio search and the reason why this even came up is. I was actuallypersonally looking on apple potcasts. There's a term called ten thirty oneexchange, which is a real estate...

...investment term, and I went to ApplePacas typed in ten thirty one exchange an apple would deliver me the resultsthat they thought were the most relevant. To my intents, the problemwas, even though it was relevant. It took about forty minutes of melistening to the entiker episode before they talked about ten thirty oneexchanges, and I thought why not develop technology. That wouldunderstand the spoken word and send the listener to that precise locationwithin the audio, and we built that out. We built our entire transcriptionservice, so trapus. As you know, one of the things that we offer is freetranscription for all creators. That transcription is the found Dhesian thatreally powers. All of the other discovery tools within the tool setdiscovery tool sit. For example, every single creator gets a potcast page onsounder and all of your episodes are there. If someone is searching for aterm or a brand or a location or a phrase or whatever, that might be, wein real time look at all of the Audio condent find the most relevant piecesof that content and then send the listener to that recise location. Sothis is taking discovery to a whole new level where you may not be interestedin a particular pocast Ur. Rather a particular topic that you didn't knowexisted that was out there and the engagement starts doin increase yeah. Ithink just to add to that Yo back to our belief system. Travis, I again withthe proliferation of audio was Dan mentioned. You know we estimatedgetting to a million at some point by the end of this year and a millionmillion potcast in the ecosystem, it's much bigger than that, as we alreadyknow, think about the next year or the nextfive years. We're talking about...

...millions and millions of podcasts andhundreds of millions of shows our episodes right and not. Every single podcast has to be a astory right. It can be more information or educational, and the idea there isthat we believe that there will be this shift in consumer behavior that, whileter's always going to be discovery of new podcast shows and of new episodes,the idea of finding that specific topic or that specific clip that interest youcoming in listening to it and moving out is really really important. Right.Li Hi, most people don't have forty minutes, or even twenty minutes thesedays to Si and listen to full episode. So what they're doing is are coming inwhen they can. This idea of instrem audio search is finding that specifictopic phrase keyword whatever it may be, what you're looking for retrieving the information and thengoing back to your doing what you were doing so we think it's it's going to bea pretty big shifting, suer behavior, as with anything new, unless you educate the consumer andalso the creator, you ow that just takes time a. We think we're kind of ahead of the curb on this one and at some point here and thenear near nearfuture m many more people will be searching for their specific needswithin withan. All the sodio content, that's being created, I love it soearlier I mentioned we don't have hopverboards and we don't have selflacing shoes, but this is definitely the future for all podcasters and itdoesn't matter if you have a comedy show with your friends or if you're ayou know: ketogenic diet, nutrition, specialist. When people are able tofind the topics that they're interested in and start to consume, you quickerand you're saving people time, they're more likely to discover you and fall inlove with you. So you K W. You can sign up for a sondramaccount today and getthat pre transcription, like damn mention, which is basically anotherentire service that podcasters are paying for outside of their potcasthost, in addition to paying for their POTCASOS and you're, going to get afree page for your Potcastle, a...

...professional beautiful looking page.Now, your your website is beautifully designed. It's it's it's very. I don'twant to see minimal, but it's very futuristic, like I mentioned before,it's super easy to navigate and you can launch a potcast on this thing in amatter of minutes. was that H, something that you spent along longtime on designing that user experience? Were you frustrated with other podcasthost user experiences, yeah and I'll start Thi Sop at Dannffor a jumpind? We've got a Tard, my language, but a kickask. You, a UXdesigner H, his name's Marciano and he's done a great job of reallybuilding out. Not only are our presents within our marketing website, butthroughout the entire platform working very closely with our front of thetechnology teams, h yeah, I think we ov going back to beliefs. You know theother thing that we've learned through our career is that its speed is is ofthe essence right, and you know when you think about search and how quicklysome of the bigger search providers out there not neaving any names provide.You provide your results, their Milla seconds right, if you think aboutplaying music on a streaming platform. Music comes back instantaneously and inour experients we want to do the same thing. We want to get the Creator onboard. Um Get them to Actualy, have their cont in our platform as quicklyas possible, so ether Upoadin your content, importing your content andthen get you through like the the nuts and bolts as quickly aspossible. So you cand focus on two things: helping to really draw morediscovery and also create quality content like ultimately that's what wewant creator to focus on right, building, great quality, concent forther audience, and then our job is to make it easy throughout the process andn ultimately help you drive more discovery, so you can grow thataudience for all that, contept that you just created so yeah speed, speed as akind of book built into kind of our R DNA, and it's important that we HACTaly do this as quickly as possible as intuitively as possible as well. It's amazing! So you guys both have abackground at Google, something that I think a lot ofpodcasters might need to know is how can they rank in Google...

...yeah? Sir, you mention this earlier on.Audios E O, so it's T's. It's it's a great time for exactly what we're doingright. So what we've learned, Um and we've see. Obviously, if you go togooble you're suarcing today, you start to see that there's almost like a onebox that ush shows you all the audio content. Based on your search query, we think that this is a perfect time toreally start to bring audio into the fold and our job is to leverage all ofour great technology. As den mentioned, when you look at our our transcription,when you look at the MEDADATA and helping to provide suggestions and databack to the Creator, the further optimized their content for searchengines such as Google and Um, you know we, we e'Rewe've just started thatjourney as a part of this launch that we had in in June, a new release, andso far the results have been pretty pre. Pretty, I would say, substantial andwe've seen the fact that our content is being indexed. You know properly andyou're, starting to see th the fact that ourconsent is showing up withinwithin the search engine. So it's stage one for sure, m early days of auds o.But ultimately the cool thing about this is that the search engines arereally taking audio much more seriously and we have a solution that reallyhelps creators again of all sizes have their content further optimized for forsearch engines, and without that I find it. Discovery gets really reallychallengin because they think think not mistaken. Google owns like ninety twoto ninety three percent of the search is gobal gogally right world wide sale.We think that's important, that we have solutions that cand help creaters meetthe users or liseners where they are awesome, so you guys are not onlyinnovators of podcasting, but I I actually spend a lot of time talking toemployees of Soundro Fam and you guys have a really great company culture.You know I've talked to many different people that work there and you're allvery passionate, but you guys are actually creators yourself and I heardfrom a little Birdie that you guys have a pod cast that might be launching soon.You want to share anything about that,...

...yeah sure. Well, D, Why don't you sharewhat you've already started and then we can talk about workgoing to be doingtogether, yeah. So actually one of the potcasts that I recently started iscalled t e, Big Exit and I actually interview o founders that have builtand sold the companies forlea over twenty five million dollars. So we, youknow, there's a big. I thought a big need within the market of educatinganchepeneurs, it's not all rosy. You might read a TEC hrunch article and say,Oh so, and so just sole their company forfifty eight million dollars. Anyone can do it. It's hard tiks, a lotof effort and work and the big exit really talks to these founders and theytell the story in their own words of how they went from zero to exit in somecases in a relatively short amount of time. That's amazing, yeah 'cause, ifyou don't have an exit plan for Your Business, you're, you're you're,basically diven digging your own grave. There th the exit plan is reallysomething that encpreneurs need to. Think of. So that's really cool. I'mgoingto definitely check that out. So what's the combined podcast yeah, we weD Kdi, really back to how we both grew up and, like think the GoogleEnvironment, but just in our DNA, it's all about eating your own dock hoodright. So the fact that we're building all these tools and services forcreators, we thought it was important that we actualy put out something youknow as as a pot gess of our own, so we're we focusing on. You know:Trending topics within the potcasting space. Really, you know we'll have tohave you on as a guest when we get it up and running travel. Sawe're. Reallytalking about you know like what's happening in Thi space, how we see thistransformation, that's happening both for smaller creators, all the waythrough some of the bigger pup, plotforms and publishers, but reallyanother just point of reference for creators as as, as we continue toenvolve and as the industry continues to EVALV. That's amazing! Well,congratulations and I'm glad that you are also a creater, because you'regoing to start to figure out the things the bottle, necks and keep improvingsound rum. I'm sure you have a very...

...healthy road map. Is there anythingcoming? I know you guys just did a major update to sounder. Is thereanything coming in the near future, UNSOUNDER FM as far as UM, updating ormore products on the platform, yeah I'll I'll kake it off here, butDana definitely want you to jump it on this too. We you know we are excited tolive up to our mission right. So the mission, if you think about all thecomponents that bring it together, it's about being a platform for all it isabout helping creators grow their audience, but it's also to Generat Sonelevel of revenue for the content that they're creating. So modonization isreally the big next step forward. For us. We're very excited about apartnership that we have in place with one of our larger I would say: hostread approviders and that', something we're going t be a in the press withshortly and were also implementing our first dynamic adinsertion solution as well, so think about. You know end of Q, three, whichis not that far away. We will be able to start serving advertising intocontent and helping you know. Creators make money for T e. The contant theyacreated by all of this will be up to creat our choice. We have big fans ofcreater choce. You don't have to have ads in your content. If you don'tbelieve in ads, we will give every single creator the choice, and you knowif they want advertising in in their in their content er their potcast.Certainly, we want to help them do that, but overall we think that monetizationhelps really fulfill a big part of this mission of not just you know, helpingcreators with fin finding audience, but also helping them to make some somesort of revenue for the consent they're creating as well. It's awesome and TRAV. Actually one ofthe things that we just lonst. You may not be aware of this, but we just lostthis. Last week we got a lot of feedback from creators who m they mighthave their own website, their own word press, they might do posts and theythey wanted. The ability to share...

SNIPPITS UM of marketing moments ontwitter, facpoock and so forth, but instead of the listener clicking intwitter and coming over to sounder, they wanted them to go to their brandand their own link right. So we actually lotst that last week, whereyou can actually send traffic directly back to your word, presspage orwhatever it might be to that precise location within the audioplayer Um toincrease engagement, page bews revenue, whatever it might be, and to ourknowledge nothing else out. There exists. Yeah that I did see that thatrolled out- and I hadn't had time to experiment with that, but that'samazing and it's just another example of you know the future. You know Iguess future would be one of the key words that I think of when I think ofSOUNDEROFM. Is All these innovations all these tools for podcasters a greatmission and I'm just I'm a big fan and I've been. I just made a video that Iwas wrong about the best potcast host and now people know which one that Ithink is the best host Um. This has been an incredible conversation. Ikindo want to wrap it up here with just a few questions to get to know you guyson more of a personal level. Sare I feel like you've done a great job ofdescribing the mission and all the the features, and now I want to let peoplego run and try those, but I want to Le Let them get to know you a little moreas just human being, so I've got a couple of questions. I've got loadedfrom pod decks and you can either one of you can jump in and answer them, butI just Wan t I'm curious about you guys if you could look through one person'semail without them, knowing whose email would you look throughit's a greatquestion. Most people say the president and Ialways tell them well, you just got to go to his twitter account and you'llsee, but it yeah it's a great question. I I wastgoing to say the president, but I would say sodn. Why didn't you take this? So Igot have to think about this little bit. Anyone stick out from the big exit. Youknow like you're, obviously...

...interviewing some pretty high levelpeople that nothing comes to Mi. I was goingto say Hillary Clayton, of course, but ou it's a really thought provokingquestion. I was going to say my wife, but Shei and Hatyou wouldn't want to dothat. That'd, be a lack of trust. I'd probably like to see JOL Rogan'semails. I think that would be an interesting little read as far as whatcomes into Joe Rogans Ecos fear Yeah. I woul se you on Busk, if I cou D, if I,if I ever, have the Mirrorit to one person Yomust, we be interested,yeahhe's, probably got nural linkd sut up, so he doesn't even send emails. EJUS RII his head Al right kind of Picki backing off that question. Who wouldyou like to? Who would you most like to sit next to you on a ten hour flightyou get on a flight, you sit next to him and you've got this person sort ofcaptivated for ten hours. Anyone that comes to mind I mean. Is this pastpresident? Like? Can we think of this historical makers? No rules, it couldbe anybody you want, it could be fictional, it could be real life.Anyone you want Kell yeah, I I would, I would say Mahatmagondi. You know. Ithink it's obviously just big big believer in you know some of thehistorical figures that have really shaped e, the world and ovousl one ofthem, one of the biggest is is Maa gody. So for me, would be a big one. That's agreat answer. I would actually say living today, regHerzwheel, who is a futurist I for those of you listening who haveto reat it most recent booker. I guess Itas ten years old. Now as thesingularity is near Um, he has about eighty four percentsuccess rate of forecasting, the future based upon where mors law and where UmTechnology is going and he'd be founed to sit next to you for ten hours, yeah,that I've watched a documentary about him and I obviously know hissynthesizers, because I'm musician and all that, but he ask Ho, I think, he'sjust his goals just to try to live long...

...enough to get to the singularity rightnow. I think that's I I sometimes think about that. Like are we close enoughyet 'cause, I'm sure. That's something he'sthinking about Um, what something weird that you recommend! Everyone tries atleast once my answer is Bickeram Yoga. I thinkit's it's a challenge. It's it puts you in a very uncomfortable place and it'sa little weird. It smells like feet, but I think that everyone should get inthere and like suffer for a little bit and learn something about yourself Y. Idon't know if this is weird, but I've only done it once in my life. Idefinitely want to do it again and that's jumping out of a plane skydiving,so I did it in n January, first N, nine Utden and ninety nine, so wit with abunch of friends. We had got outterte years even decided the next morningthat we were going to jump out of a plane and we did. It was one of thebest experiences of my life. So if you get a chance to Scyabo, be Havit,definitely recommend it. Okay, Cil it's funny 'cause, I wa in say theexact same thing. Soi Word, my wife is she's just afraid of heights, and Iread a book that said: If you want someone to say yes, especially ifyou're proposing you should make them scared, so I actually drove her north.I in north of Denver we got on a plane. I jumped out first recorded herreaction. Obviously it was handom and proposed tof her when I landed, Ilandet first and she said yes so al. She said that was the scariest thing Iever did, but the best thing I ever did so that's a great bomding experience M. Iam definitely afraid of heights, so I don't know if I'll be jumping out of aplane anytime soon. I I like gravity in the ground, so I think I'm gn justgoing to stick here. What is something that you hate but wish that you loved? I Hate Excel spread sheets. So that'smy answer. IHATE working out, okay, you like itwhen it's done, though you like when...

...you've like Youhad scorwhat's, yourleast favorite workout move. I hate squats, I would say yeah squatter, prettyreverse quats reversed squats, O onjeis blunges yeahverse, lunges yeah. For me,it's running I I hate running whet. I do it so you know after like the thirdor fourth mile, like I'm exhausted, but it's something you just need to do, butI hate it. But that's that's one for me for sure Hme! What's something thatpeople are obsessed with, but you just don't get the point of yeah, I don't even know the name of theshow hit's on Nethlix the thing it's called it's something which, with JoEzonic so Nigerking hiher King. I know t t that was a bit of a trend. I think,when we all kind of went in to lockdown, but never never, really understood theh. The connection here, I think it's, I think, that's like one of thosecultural, like you're, peaking into a window, and I do think that the lockdown had a lotto do with the success of that documentar. I think you're, probablyright, because everyone was just sort of in that chaos mode, and that wassomething that we could all look at and say like. Well, at least that's not mylife right, I'm just stuck here. So how about you Dan? I mean putting on myinvestor. Had I back in o eight, I thought it was ridiculous how peoplewere still obsessed with renting out their rooms to complete strangers, andwhy would anyone ever wance Ho invest in a company called ARB and B boy? WasI wrong? It goes to show sometimes, I think,being obsessed with something, and I mean this happens with baseball cardsand stuff that I may not understand ar comic books, but there is a very, verylarge market and sure enough sharing your room or your house or Condo became a reallybig business. Yes, it did it's probably Simiwhen people thought about ouber andthey're like. Why would I have somebody...

...drive a car and drive people around andnear? We Are you know with these ginormous tech companies. My biggestregret is Um. I had a mentor who was into the stockmarket and I was like you know: What do you think about Amazon stock? It'sabout two hundred and fifty dollars a share and he's like. I never buy ashare of anything over two hundred dollars and here we are, and it's likethirty five hundred dollars a share and if unto him I would be in the same place. I am, but you know,with a little more money in the stock market m all right. Last question: Thishas been really fun. I feel like I' gotten to know you guys a little betterand I would like to podcast again with you soon what' something I would neverguess about. L, that's easy for me. I just told CAL.Yesterday I actually have N. I have eight and ahalf toes eight and a half toes yeah, okay, soyou're missing some Pahos yeah th that the big one when I was about two yearsold, my parents put me on a motorcycle with my sister who's. Thirteen on theback. I fell asleep and it went into back back. Then you had a Chane, OhChan Rig, and I think it was a little fifty cc and it could have been a lotworse, but that's something that some people don't know abut about me and Iwas separately. I was kidnapped in Venezuela in two thousand. During theAvaz Administration. It was funbut, that's at'sprobably for another PA. Awhole pod cast r here, my friend wow. So does the toe thing affect yourbalance at all, or is it pretty much just not at all? You grew up like that.Your parents must have really had to to pay you back. For that I mean they musthave been mortified yeah yeah. They they did some crazy stuff, th y. Theylet the kids do whatever we wanted and, and there you go- I mean I I imaginelike you could just do whatever you wanted and say. Well, I have eight anda half toes and they could just have to be like okay, you're right, you N. Istill do it today. I still do it Eo my my older sister, who was who wis buyinge saying and she's fifty five. Why did you let me get on the the motorcyclewith you, yeah...

...cal, anything yeah I feel like afterthose there is. I'm super boring, don't think Ih've anything uh wow, Idon't know Um Yeah. I don't have anything. I canshare at the moment, okaylright well. This has been amazing again. I applaudyou guys for innovating podcasting. I think we're in the I still think we'rein the early stages of a huge boom, and now we have a tool that can helppodcasters get discovered, have equal footing to everybody. I loved yourcomment about the one percent I didn't know those stat, so I learned somethingvery important today. I appreciate your time and I'm going to be continuing tosing the praises of Saundram going forward and Um. Is there anything youlike to leave the audience with going out yeahwell first of all, just want to saythank you travis, not only for the time today, but also for being. You K A bigproponent of what we're trying to do here and being being our partnerthrough this journey, so just excited having on the platform e IAVE o betovice an things again thanks for listening. If you enjoy thisepisode, the number one thing you could do to help is to subscribe rate andreview this podcast or, if you know another podcast who may be strugglingand needs a little bit of podicast. There be just click that sheer buttonand share it with the podcaster. You love the most ASEA in the next episode.

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